Criminal Roleplay

LucaEzme

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Yes Nivaurum but gangs are limited to few slots in their roster, the only way to progress, is by having good rp, and not break rules,, taking in new people is a huge risk, and thats where the majority of the rulebreaks i encountered comes from. Peoplee with 100 hours straight up dm'ing or breaking fearRp etc. Thats stuff that strikes the gang and hinders them in progressing further.

Once a gang has endured enough rulebreaks etc, and people starts to get removed / gangs losing tiers, they stop caring, and starts just playing for the PVP,, thats my experience atleast.

There is no real such thing as prominent gangs right now. Every gang out there, is able to source almost unlimiteed amounts of heavy pistols, and numbers to wield them, to go fight everywhere, and that is what we are seeing. and concequences happens Waaaay too late. we have gangs doing the same pvp shit for months in a row, and still being gangs that no one can hurt, because you cant strip away their numbers or weapons as another gang, because of the preevious mentioned issue with unlimited amounts of heavy pistols, and people with 100-200 hours on the server
 

BigBoyViking

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I don't think the problem with new people is the lack of RP skills. Sure, they may not be good RPers, but PD adds new players all the time. They just need to be monitored and taught how to RP well (if they don't already know). Gangs could do the same.

The problem has been that gangs progressed (more money, more status, more stuff) by winning in PvP with other gangs. And winning in PvP was easier if you had more people with guns. Thus, there was an incentive to recruit more people, especially if they were good at PvP, regardless of if they were good RPers. It sounds like the Tier stuff has changed things, though I don't know much about it.

It makes sense for gangs to have some OOC requirements concerning experience, but each gang could individually decide on what those are. The ones who recruit crappy RPers would just end up never becoming prominent.
to come at on the main part, PD isnt RP heavy not even close. They should be the expample off good RP but they arnt either. There is barely any cops that actualy wanna put in for good RP I would says 25% wanna rp the other 75% doesnt and only wants chases and shootouts
 
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Nivaurum

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Let's have a civil convo about criminals, staff, and GM + RP.

to come at on the main part, PD isnt RP heavy not even close. They should be the expample off good RP but they arnt either. There is barely any cops that actualy wanna put in for good RP I would says 25% wanna rp the other 75% doesnt and only wants chases and shootouts
BBV, I'm not sure how that was supposed to be productive (or even civil). There's no need to turn yet another thread into "crims suck", "no, PD sucks".

Everybody with any history here knows why the tier thing exists. The amount of PvP has been out of control. But I see the PvP as a symptom of the underlying problem, which is that PvP has been incentivized. Given the way turfs worked, and the way drug selling areas work, PvP is rewarded with extra money (which is essentially the only thing of value).

I see the tier thing as equivalent to a dialysis machine for somebody with kidney disease. It will keep you alive, but it doesn't make you better. What you really need is something to cure the underlying problem. And here, the underlying problem is that PvP is rewarded. We need to shift that so that RP is rewarded (and the tier thing kind of does that, but I think the gang members want something better).
 
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Vladimir

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BBV, I'm not sure how that was supposed to be productive (or even civil). There's no need to turn yet another thread into "crims suck", "no, PD sucks".

Everybody with any history here knows why the tier thing exists. The amount of PvP has been out of control. But I see the PvP as a symptom of the underlying problem, which is that PvP has been incentivized. Given the way turfs worked, and the way drug selling areas work, PvP is rewarded with extra money (which is essentially the only thing of value).

I see the tier thing as equivalent to a dialysis machine for somebody with kidney disease. It will keep you alive, but it doesn't make you better. What you really need is something to cure the underlying problem. And here, the underlying problem is that PvP is rewarded. We need to shift that so that RP is rewarded (and the tier thing kind of does that, but I think the gang members want something better).
I feel you but the tier thing doesn’t help much. As @Guiseppe said earlier, me and my group ran so so so many events, tried to stick to our attire for so long, and after 3/4 months of trying to get to tier 4, within a week we dropped 1 Tier based on some “KOS rule breaks” and “some other stutf”. I am surprised that we are even still trying to keep our RP, attire, lore and provide but it’s really demotivating when the only way of making money as a Criminal is thru illegal locations which are full of PVP 24/7.
 

Nivaurum

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... it’s really demotivating when the only way of making money as a Criminal is thru illegal locations which are full of PVP 24/7.
You've certainly got my support in driving changes that will improve crim RP while reducing PvP. I agree with you. The tier thing, or even GM, is kind of like the RP police. It feels very authoritarian, instead of liberating. I'm sure GM doesn't want to be the RP police. To their credit, the amount of PvP is less than it was, and the server really needed that.

I hate to say it, but probably little is going to really change until after the crim update comes out. Then there will need to be some time to figure out what about that is good, and what's bad. Then additional changes can be suggested. So it might be a while still with the tier thing. I'm not advocating for that, but it looks like that's the reality of things.
 

ThexMAVERICKxATG

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IMO if we would have more things for civs to do, get RP corps that want to hire people, give them money weekly to pay salaries, get them running so that a corp job pays more than scripted jobs(who in reality are like shitty low-income jobs) and there you will have a much bigger percentage of business owners and civilians doing RP around which means that as a criminal you can have much more interesting RP with them, like blackmailing, ransom, protection tax, etc etc etc. MCRP lacks in civilians.
I 100% agree with this statement. If you boost civilian activities, then you allow criminals to feed off these businesses. I am currently doing Civ Rp and the lack of stuff to do is frustrating. The addition of hunting helped. I am also trying to help Arman build up the sandy shores area with the miners union but without any new flights venturing out to sandy it is hard to get people interested. I believe that there needs to be more things for both crims to do and civilians.

I have had a few of these ideas in my head and I think they could offer a solution:

Adding a pawnshop type business would create a blend of legal and illegal rp. Pawnshops only take cash and they will buy any legal item in the game (furniture, clothes phones, radios, legal weapons) at a heavily discounted price. Then you can buy these items for their actual cost or slightly below. (to avoid money farming) This could incentivize gangs to steal goods and sell them to a pawnshop. Now the owner of the pawnshop would sit in a legal grey area. Do they buy stolen phones? do they risk loosing the item if the police say it is stolen? Additionally, adding luxury items such as art, jewelry, and, expensive clothes could boost civ rp and crim rp.

Luxury items could add an additional money pit for civs while providing a target for criminal organizations. Auction off one of a kind art or have this art be rather expensive and not obtainable thru the furniture store (the casino dlc has plenty of assets that could inspire this art from paintings to statues). Allowing players to buy fancy art and other exclusive items to put in their homes opens up a few possibilities. Art heist where criminal organizations steal and try to resell this unique art piece. or even a private party hiring a criminal organization to steal it for them. This also opens up rp for law enforcement.

Another luxury items that could help is expensive clothing or jewelry. Allowing players to buy expensive clothing and jewelry could also enhance a pawn shop type system. These clothing options would be expensive and flashy. (not the most thought out idea but here it is)

Changing the economic structure of the game. (This is a big one) essentially add a supply chain to almost every business. you want to import a new stock car? well it gets delivered to the docks and needs to be delivered through the trucking job. (boosts used car dealerships cause you can buy it and drive off on the 'same day') Now this is a massive one and requires its own post really. However, this would allow criminals to disrupt the supply chain and even sell stolen goods to legal business so they can sell stuff for well under asking price.

Having crims need to import/export materials for guns/drugs/and other illegal activities could stop the unlimited flow of these items. This gives gangs the ability to import and have to deliver these goods to a location. This would and should be risky. another gang could get tipped off and try to steal it or the cops could try and take it.

here are a few other things that could help but I have not though about them enough:
- scripted bank robberies (with rule limitations)
- cash only businesses
- armored car job (whitelisted)
- smuggling
- counterfeit goods (knock off luxury items)
- scripted civilian activities (similar to hunting)
- poaching
- fake ids

I feel that adding more things on the civilian side will help build rp for both law enforcement and criminals.
 
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