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Is This A RP Server?

Nivaurum

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@Nameless , you're committing another logical fallacy. The purpose of this thread is to address an issue (too much DM). Calling out some other issue doesn't actually address the one that is the topic here. At best, it just changes the topic from one that you're not comfortable with. At worst, it serves as an excuse to continue the bad behavior. I'm not going to allow either. You're welcome to start another topic where we can address criticisms of PD's RP.

@Sangres Niznik , I'm not saying that crims only engage in shootouts. I'm saying there are too many shootouts. Shootouts are now just as ubiquitous here as they are on GTA Online. They've been happening multiple times a day. It should be a fairly rare occurrence.

If there's some ongoing gang war, then what's the endgame? At what point does one side concede to the other? I've seen the video of the start of the whole thing, and it's all because somebody got insulted. That's stupid, and essentially what the rules are trying to prevent. So it looks to me like any excuse for a shootout will do.
 

Copes

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Tricky to even gonna comment on Nameless' **** mentality but I'll say this.

What criminals need is more content. When there is fuck all for them to do they will rely more heavily on PVP to have fun. Been there, done that.

In terms of roleplay standard? I see the most bottom of the barrel dogshit roleplay from 80% of crims I deal with and guess what? I've seen it with some of my colleagues in PD too. You monkeys need to quit bitching and whining through bias and actually push for better change overall.
 
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Nameless

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@Nameless , you're committing another logical fallacy. The purpose of this thread is to address an issue (too much DM). Calling out some other issue doesn't actually address the one that is the topic here. At best, it just changes the topic from one that you're not comfortable with. At worst, it serves as an excuse to continue the bad behavior. I'm not going to allow either. You're welcome to start another topic where we can address criticisms of PD's RP.

@Sangres Niznik , I'm not saying that crims only engage in shootouts. I'm saying there are too many shootouts. Shootouts are now just as ubiquitous here as they are on GTA Online. They've been happening multiple times a day. It should be a fairly rare occurrence.

If there's some ongoing gang war, then what's the endgame? At what point does one side concede to the other? I've seen the video of the start of the whole thing, and it's all because somebody got insulted. That's stupid, and essentially what the rules are trying to prevent. So it looks to me like any excuse for a shootout will do.
There is no endgame. Without content to keep crims busy, they will just shoot each other. GTA Online is grindfest 9000 - spend 3 weeks grinding just to buy a single middle tier car, if that, while being shot by flying bikes non stop. GTA Online isn't fun at all. There's no progression, no large groupings of players since the server caps are either 16 or 32.

RP Servers thrive on gangs. RP servers need gangs. You keep linking to some website to make yourself feel better, when all I've seen from yourself is non stop complaining about how Crims are bad and should be nerfed, all while PD guys are running around with double long guns as if it's nothing, with their extra armor, and overpowered vehicles that were added simply because they were shit drivers getting outran by warreners. Even now tho with an OP car police still can barely catch crims.

As a crim, I don't feel like there's a lot of DM. I feel like there's a lack of RP in situations, but not a mass amount of DM. People are generally pretty good with rules of engagement, making sure you initiate, give time etc for the person to leave. Ofc that doesn't happen all the time, but even Crows know to initiate, and put up a good chase. For once I'm actually praising them. While they might not have the absolute best RP, I don't expect amazing RP from other gangs. Other gangs are for the idiots who can't get into PD, as PD is meant to be an RP group. If PD can't even RP, or don't even attempt to in most cases, how can you expect Criminals to?

If you're going to just quote the same link because you have no other argument other than "your opinion is wrong because I think I know more" then don't bother responding. It's not a PD vs Crims server. It isn't cops v robbers. Criminals have exhausted the content that is there for them, there is no more grinding, people have everything they could want (houses, cars, businesses). The only thing left is to fight each other - there isn't anything else for Crims to do.

A friend and I went to MD to RP with another friend who was there already, we were there for almost 2 hours RP'ing. PD members were there, and instead of taking part in the roleplay, stood back and just watched. Not saying much, not interacting much. And even then thrown in was a /b can we just go already? You act like PD are the most amazing Roleplayers in the entire community, when 95% of them don't even bother. I know it's not really that possible either to vet PD joiners because you can't deny them even if you know they have terrible RP.

At least the interactions I've had with @BroskiBen for example have been good, and he's actually roleplayed.

EDIT: Should also add that the 2 hours of RP was due to that person being shot by 10+ cops at the end of a chase, and then wanting a quick 5 minute revive at MD before carting them off to Jail. At least some kind of RP there to fit with the injuries would have been nice, instead of having to do it all ourselves with the medics there at the time.
 
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Cat

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To be honest, I barely read the responses.

The issue is, everyone is focused on ruleplay when they should be focused on roleplay. Everyone has to focus on a grind because the economy is in shambles when Legal Groups get paid to Roleplay. On my crim, I fished for 6 hours at the pier with a mate to afford a vehicle.

It's so fucking difficult.
 

Nivaurum

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The issue is, everyone is focused on ruleplay when they should be focused on roleplay. Everyone has to focus on a grind because the economy is in shambles when Legal Groups get paid to Roleplay.
I agree this is a problem, but not the only problem. It also has little to do with engaging in repeated shootouts. In fact, the grind should discourage shootouts, given the costs endured in a shootout, as the cops are always slowly pulling guns off the street.
 

Nick_Kassian

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There is no endgame. Without content to keep crims busy, they will just shoot each other.
If you're going to just quote the same link because you have no other argument other than "your opinion is wrong because I think I know more" then don't bother responding. It's not a PD vs Crims server. It isn't cops v robbers. Criminals have exhausted the content that is there for them, there is no more grinding, people have everything they could want (houses, cars, businesses). The only thing left is to fight each other - there isn't anything else for Crims to do.
To be honest, I barely read the responses.

The issue is, everyone is focused on ruleplay when they should be focused on roleplay. Everyone has to focus on a grind because the economy is in shambles when Legal Groups get paid to Roleplay. On my crim, I fished for 6 hours at the pier with a mate to afford a vehicle.

It's so fucking difficult.
Couldn't have said it better myself. This economy and the way things run on this server are so backwards. Criminals should be high risk, high reward, so they can spend more time RPing and less time making money, which btw, are ALL afk scripts. It's amazing to me that criminals still play on this server, given how hard it is to make money and how little RP comes with it. Police / legals are low risk, so therefore, should be low reward and on average, paid less, since they get passive income and get paid to roleplay.

I agree this is a problem, but not the only problem. It also has little to do with engaging in repeated shootouts. In fact, the grind should discourage shootouts, given the costs endured in a shootout, as the cops are always slowly pulling guns off the street.
The fact that you think criminals participating in frequent shootouts is a problem and ruins the server, only shows to me that you are a part of the biggest problem on this server. I challenge you to try and be a criminal for 1 month, starting from 0, and not quit at it or want to play less. The only interesting stuff that criminals have to do is shoot at people, or create civilian events, which aren't even criminal RP. It's not your fault that the economy and server are set up like this, but before you blame criminals for DMing and shooting too much, I recommend you actually try and be a criminal, while at the same time enjoying good roleplay. I don't know how we can expect criminals to give good RP when they are given none by the server and the people they interact with.

The economy and the entire structure of the server needs a rework.
 
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Nivaurum

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The fact that you think criminals participating in frequent shootouts is a problem and ruins the server, only shows to me that you are a part of the biggest problem on this server.
I've said a few times now that the top priorities here should be civ jobs, crim jobs, and prison. I totally agree that there is much that needs to change to make crim stuff fun. That doesn't change the fact that continuous shootouts are antithetical to the stated goals of the server, nor does it justify people choosing that course.

A bigger problem that any of that stuff is the fact that many of the gang leaders have genuine OOC animosity toward each other. It's obvious in Discord and on the forums. Because of that, they won't be able to work together toward any actual RP. Imagine playing a tabletop RPG with people you disliked. Imagine one of them being the GM, and you not just disliking the person, but also not trusting the person. That's absolute poison.

Here's how this current shootout should have gone. After the big blow-up, the top main gang leaders (the ones who were the reason for the conflict in the first place) should have gotten together OOC and established some sort of endgame for it. A potential example could be, after 48 hours (to give everybody who wanted it a chance to be involved), which ever one of them gets PKed first is the "loser", and will order his gang to withdraw. It doesn't have to be that, but that's an example. You get to have a gang war, it lasts a few days, and then it ends, without going on and on... for a week now?

Any new players who come to the server will think this is a giant DM-fest. The actual RPers will move on, looking for a server where RP happens. The guys looking for a DM-fest will stay. And they will help perpetuate the DM-fest.

That's not to entirely blame the gang leaders. They have little incentive to focus on RP. Turfs encourage PvP, not RP. Drug sell points encourage PvP, not RP. Black markets encourage PvP, not RP. So, if you want your gang to be successful, you'd better focus on PvP, and not RP. THIS is what the staff (not devs) needs to address. Figure out a way to start encouraging RP, and start taking things away from the gangs that focus on PvP.

Will people leave? Sure they will. Some people are here for the DM-fest. Maybe they don't like to RP. But this really isn't the server for them anyway... or it's not supposed to be. And they will eventually be replaced by people who are looking to RP.
 

Nick_Kassian

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Here's how this current shootout should have gone. After the big blow-up, the top main gang leaders (the ones who were the reason for the conflict in the first place) should have gotten together OOC and established some sort of endgame for it. A potential example could be, after 48 hours (to give everybody who wanted it a chance to be involved), which ever one of them gets PKed first is the "loser", and will order his gang to withdraw. It doesn't have to be that, but that's an example. You get to have a gang war, it lasts a few days, and then it ends, without going on and on... for a week now?
I get what you're saying, but what I don't think you understand is that this "war", has literally being going on since I joined the server in like February. There have been some changes here and there, for example, I don't think Bratva and Crows were always allied, same with Savages + Shadow Order. However, for the most part, it's been Crows and Bratva vs Savages and Shadow Order. The same war, for how many months? Don't you think the criminals are tired of it? Don't you think that if they had anything better to do, that they would stop? A typical day on mcrp for people is hop into a factory and afk for a few hours, get paid for it by a gang leader or sell what you make. Maybe get into a chase with PD or just hang out with people, try to sell drugs, etc.. Once more people are online and timezones work out better, it's just wait for it to be 8pm in game and hunt the opposition until you get bored, or maybe try and capture a turf if you have a lot of people online. There is LITERALLY nothing else script wise for them to do. Sure, they could create some RP, but guess what? If they do, they don't make money and fall severely behind compared to an opposing gang or Legals who get paid whether or not they RP.

If you have a solution to the problem where criminals can enjoy RP while not being at a disadvantage, please share it with the community. Otherwise, it's not right to complain about how they spend their time on the server when that's all that they can do.
 
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