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Nightranger's rule suggestion for Amendment to Cop Baiting rule under "Immersion"

Discussion in 'In-game Rule Suggestions' started by Nightranger, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. Nightranger

    Nightranger This Guy

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    Rule Name:
    Amendment to Cop Baiting rule under "Immersion"


    Is this a rule addition, change, or removal:
    Rule Change


    Suggested Rule Text:
    Baiting, also known as committing crimes or enticing crimes in the proximity of police offers or criminals to initiate a chase, arrest, escalation, etc without a valid roleplay reason. Examples of this include, but not limited to:
    Purposely doing wheelies around an officer to be arrested for no valid reason.
    Openly breaking traffic laws in the presence of an LEO without a valid roleplay reason.
    Purposely reinitiating a pursuit after losing officers.
    Actions that pertain higher crime to be conducted by criminals.
    This could be but not limited too:
    Direct Provocation to commit a crime or further enticing a crime without a valid rp reason
    Stacking Unnecessary charges needlessly.
    Repeatedly harassing a criminal without a valid RP reason.


    What are the benefits of this rule:
    Currently the rule indicates that it is only criminals that bait, this is not true, but dealt with IC by Police.

    By making this rule more generic to "Baiting" it includes every player on the server regardless of their position in-game. PD have the ability to sort "Cop baiters" out in-game, and generally do so, but also bring it to the forums to get a ban/warning in place on that person.
    Currently there is nothing at a server level to punish cops that goad, harass or repeatedly target a group without a valid roleplay reason, and is deemed as "IC Issues" - So to level the playing field for all players, and not have it bias, indicting heavier consequences for one group of player alone.

    Stacking charges can be wiped in-game by an IA if found, but it doesn't recover the wasted time for a player in prison, and a cop getting warned or removed from PD, Is not the same as a ban/warning for a criminal who has lost their chances of getting licenses and their game time hindered also.

    I believe it will also further RP from both groups alone and help break some barriers, as both groups are then held accountable by Server rules, and not just one group, therefore removing a bias that criminals are the only ones that are capable of "Baiting".


    What are the negatives of this rule change, addition, or removal:
    I do not believe there is any negatives to the rule being less bias, and can only see a positive of it increasing RP and fairness across the board


    I confirmed that I have properly thought about this rule amendment. I also confirm that I've discussed this rule amendment with others. I also confirm I've checked the suggestion section before previously posting this rule suggestion and understand that I will receive a warning for posting a duplicate suggestion.
    Yes
     
  2. Nivaurum

    Nivaurum The Guy

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    Do these things even happen, especially when considering the "valid RP reason"?

    This feels like ways to ban cops for just honestly doing their jobs.

    Undercover detectives are going to try to get you to commit a crime in their presence. They obviously do some work to first figure out who those people are, but you could call that "direct provocation to commit a crime". For that matter, pretty much all criminal activity is preceded with a "direct provocation". It seems like the valid RP reason is built in to the characters: "I'm a cop" or "I'm a criminal".

    I'm not exactly sure what is meant by "stacking unnecessary charges needlessly". What makes a charge "needed" or "necessary"? Is this just to prohibit the stacking of charges? If so, what constitutes "stacking"? Is it multiple of the same charge, or more than one charge? BTW, the cops are currently prohibited from applying multiple of the same charge... what we define as "stacking". For example, if you're carrying two illegal weapons, you won't get two charges for carrying an illegal weapon. You'll only get one. I believe you can see your record, and tell if charges got stacked. If they did, take it up IC with PD or DOJ.

    On the point of "repeatedly harassing a criminal", criminals probably do that to each other far more than the cops do, but I suspect this is all about cops harassing criminals. This one, in particular, seems to invite punishment for just doing your job. If a cop drives through Jamestown, he could get reported for harassing. In fact, he would, and then a staff member would have to decide if there was a "valid RP reason". A lot of people would be wasting time with player complaints. And the reality is, pretty much any reason is a valid RP reason, unless you're suggesting that someone is letting an OOC grudge influence their IC actions. In that situation, we already have a rule: Metagaming.

    The crazy part about this suggestion is that it seems to be based on your recent IG experience. I assume you think this new suggested rule would have applied in your scenario, and the cop involved would now be subject to a ban. You offer as support for this suggestion that criminals can get banned for doing the same sorts of things, but you didn't get banned. I don't see how you're equating the two.

    While I'd like to be sensitive to a player's bad RP experience with the cops, I don't feel that this offers anything productive.
     
  3. Nightranger

    Nightranger This Guy

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    A criminal can be banned for doing what a criminal does... Crime! - Just because it is in front of an officer is deemed "Baiting". Reality is, there are hundreds of thousands of people that really don't care if a cop is there or not, further more there are cops on payrolls with criminals to the look the other way, yet here on an RP server is deemed "Unrealistic" as such a potential ban element is put in place, rather than just stopping it at an IC Level.

    As for Undercover detectives, It is not their job to entice criminals to do crime, It is their job to see a criminal doing a crime, or to gather intelligence of a crime being committed, their is a huge difference here. One can be deemed doing their job, the other "Baiting"... Law enforcement regardless of their rank/role should be deterring crime, not encouraging it.

    Stacking charges, is in effect when an officer is provoking you, so you say some words in the heat of the moment out of frustration, due to provocation and harrassment, which then lands you with "Criminal/Terrorist threats" - The difference is one is said in a heat of the moment with no intention to carry it out, the other is being said with intent and potential to carry it out (A Threat), which is something that the police seem to not understand here, Yet they add the charge. (Example)

    If a cop was reported for "Just driving through Jamestown", then that's silly, If that cop was repeatedly "Just driving through Jamestown, up/down the street going nowhere else" just because there is a group of people there, then yes it could be deemed harassment. But a routine patrol is not harassment.

    I never cop baited, so how would I insinuate a potential ban on myself?

    My case was an undercover officer in his own personal vehicle, who never spoke a word to me but chased/rammed me and then ran me over... leading to a shootout and manipulating facts to suit his case (Powergaming)...

    And again this is typical police mentality (It happened to you, your upset and now complaining about it, It's an IC Issue deal with it) - Truth is, A lot of suggestions come from experiences, not just ideas, the reason for this here is to make the server a better place overall

    I have been asking for more equality particularly around this rule for as long as I can remember, and have brought this up many times, and I will repeatedly bring it up many times, because pure and simply, If anything ever goes wrong with PD vs Crims, It's always "It's an IC Issue", If it's Crims vs PD, then it generally leads to reports... If you cannot see the bias, unequal ruleset here, then we can't continue the conversation, All players are capable of "Baiting" regardless of whether it is Police, Criminals, or Attorneys.

    If one group is subject to Server rulesets and the other gets a "Get out of jail free card" there is no equality between players, at a gaming level. Answer me this, when was the last time an officer ever got arrested/charged for criminal acts? Probably never because PD are a gang, and only uphold the law to others, but are a law unto themselves, Yes you have IA, which results in cautions, loss of job, but when was a PD officer ever arrested for attempted murder for accidentally shooting the wrong person? Or for discharging lethals on unarmed criminals/civillians?...

    There is a HUGE gap between groups, PD need to be more "Police" like, and not a law unto themselves. They should be held accountable on an OOC level the same as every other player on this server.


    And I'll say it again, just to be clear, The aim of "Police" is to deter crime, not encourage it to get a conviction, regardless of rank/role.
     
  4. Cat

    Cat irl cat Supporter

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    Oh shit when did you become a detective? I don't seem to have you on my roster but you seem to know everything about detectives!
     
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  5. Cat

    Cat irl cat Supporter

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    If a cop was reported for "Just driving through Jamestown", then that's silly, If that cop was repeatedly "Just driving through Jamestown, up/down the street going nowhere else" just because there is a group of people there, then yes it could be deemed harassment. But a routine patrol is not harassment.

    PD brain go where big crim gathering go, ugga ugga.
     
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  6. Nightranger

    Nightranger This Guy

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    Hello darling, Nice to see you shitposting my posts again, If you haven't got anything productive to add, please refrain from commenting, Also for what it's worth, your "Nail pick to scratch Serial numbers off" suggestion has been made countless times, which you were against as a cop, and now all of a sudden you want it?

    Your really funny, again, Nothing productive to add, stop shitposting
     
  7. Cat

    Cat irl cat Supporter

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    It looked like shit posting but it was legit. PD will circle high crime and high traffic areas.

    Also, HEAVEN FORBID SOMEONE CHANGES THEIR MIND!!!!1111
    OH NOOOO THE HORROR!!111

    You have small brain energy,
     
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  8. Nightranger

    Nightranger This Guy

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    Unfortunately, so do you, and you proved this just now, My statement shows I mentioned "Just because a group of people are there"... I didn't say "Just because a group of criminals are there"...

    Which shows how small-minded and naive you are, by assuming that every gathering of people is in fact criminals, and this is half the issue with "PD Mentality"...
     
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  9. Sangres Niznik

    Sangres Niznik New Guy

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    I would like to say that i like this suggestion but at the same time its not every cop that does this its more so cadets that do this sort of thing from my understanding, sides from that I personally believe cops have one of the best Rp's especially the detectives, But its most certainly annoying when cops only roam around the area of an assumingly high crime area which leads to gangs not being able to do anything without cops getting involved which to mention that cops are equipped with much better equipment and men then criminals. and I have to agree with nightranger that Cops do in fact bait as well. But there's imperfection from both crimes and cops which is to be expected but there's ways that both sides can sharpen up on rules wise.
     
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  10. Nightranger

    Nightranger This Guy

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    Please don't get me wrong, I know it's not every cop - Just like it isn't every criminal that does it. The main point here is to remove Bias and bring equality across the rules between factions/groups on the server
     
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