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Thomas Noman's rule suggestion for server whitelisting.

Thomas Noman

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I'm wondering are you the person who came up with the idea of RP or what: Weren't you new to RP when you started?
I was lucky when I started playing RP servers approx. 3 years ago cause I had a friend who was there to teach me and show me the ropes. Some players don't have that commodity and they need time to learn the ropes and ways.
I am perfectly fine with people who are new to RP, but they would need to be willing to learn. They would need to read and understand the rules. They need to know what they are doing before they play.

Personally, when I was new to RP, I decided to be only a lawful civilian before doing things like being a criminal or gang members because playing a lawful character had the least risk. I didn't have to involve any kind of RP that would result in a loss like killing, stealing, etc. Then once I was familiar with RP, I started to be a criminal with OOC confidence to not break any rules. But if a new player think they can RP a criminal? No problem. They just need to know what they are doing before they play and a better whitelist system would ensure that.
 

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Rule Name:
server whitelisting.​

Is this a rule addition, change, or removal:
New Rule​

Suggested Rule Text:
Whitelist the server with actual applications.​
1.) 150 words minimum character backstory​
2.) 2 scenario questions on what would you do. (150 words minimum)​
3.) 10 multiple choices questions.​

What are the benefits of this rule:
We no longer get the trash and substandard "roleplayers" we get every day from a simple quiz you can simply redo it how many times you want.​

What are the negatives of this rule change, addition, or removal:
Low players, lower revenues, but if you care about RP, then you shouldn't worry about this. This is the initial solution for all the garbage roleplayers on the server to vanish.​

I confirmed that I have properly thought about this rule amendment. I also confirm that I've discussed this rule amendment with others. I also confirm I've checked the suggestion section before previously posting this rule suggestion and understand that I will receive a warning for posting a duplicate suggestion.
Yes​
Might I remind you mate this is NOT Gta World stop trying to shape it into GTA World
 

ThatDio

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That's straight out a terrible reasoning. So, how exactly does whitelisting make people feel they are better at RP?. If there were a better whitelisting system, everyone who passed would feel elitist?
.



I agree there are new players who are willing to learn and understand the rules when joining, and I truly appreciate them, but your "so many" is the minority. Whenever I see [NEW] I just try to avoid and choose not to interact because I am not here to encounter and waste my time to people who have zero idea what RP is.

Whitelisting is the perfect initial solution to all the issues. Do you know any communities with high standards without whitelisting system? Tell me.
I'm not gonna lie i think this community is the best. I have several issues with the server, with staff, with PD, with certain crims, but I still haven't seen an english focused RP community that is better than this one. Met a lot of good friends here, had great interactions and amazing RP, as well as very silly fun times and crazy situations that, while they break my immersion, make me laugh extremely hard.

I understand you have a different experience than me, I mainly do civ/gray area roleplay and every now and then I go down to the airport and pick up newflights just for a laugh. I always post ads and try to be approachable to new players, and I always try interacting with anyone who approaches me if they have a NEW tag. You are speaking out of the position of PD, having to respond to VDM calls, harassment, seeing criminals poof after you catch them etc. Being a gang member isn't much better, you deal with the same kinda people. But for me who actually deal with these people trying to help them out, I have maybe one negative experience out of every ten, and even some of the negative experiences are funny. The really bad seeds get weeded out quick enough at this point in any case.

As I said before, I think as the server gets bigger we need to think of a way to make whitelisting work, but whitelisting is definitely not a solution to any of the problems we have in the server currently, and it's not a "good start" to fixing the server. It needs to be implemented with a lot of thought behind it, because as many people have said in this thread, the only reason the server is this big is because there is no entry quiz. From what I know, the server would like to expand and become even bigger, and it would be very sad if the whitelisting would completely destroy the momentum currently built up. I'll write another post when we hit 500 players peak and see if i feel any different.
 
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I'm not gonna lie i think this community is the best. I have several issues with the server, with staff, with PD, with certain crims, but I still haven't seen an english focused RP community that is better than this one. Met a lot of good friends here, had great interactions and amazing RP, as well as very silly fun times and crazy situations that, while they break my immersion, make me laugh extremely hard.

I understand you have a different experience than me, I mainly do civ/gray area roleplay and every now and then I go down to the airport and pick up newflights just for a laugh. I always post ads and try to be approachable to new players, and I always try interacting with anyone who approaches me if they have a NEW tag. You are speaking out of the position of PD, having to respond to VDM calls, harassment, seeing criminals poof after you catch them etc. Being a gang member isn't much better, you deal with the same kinda people. But for me who actually deal with these people trying to help them out, I have maybe one negative experience out of every ten, and even some of the negative experiences are funny. The really bad seeds get weeded out quick enough at this point in any case.

As I said before, I think as the server gets bigger we need to think of a way to make whitelisting work, but whitelisting is definitely not a solution to any of the problems we have in the server currently, and it's not a "good start" to fixing the server. It needs to be implemented with a lot of thought behind it, because as many people have said in this thread, the only reason the server is this big is because there is no entry quiz. From what I know, the server would like to expand and become even bigger, and it would be very sad if the whitelisting would completely destroy the momentum currently built up. I'll write another post when we hit 500 players peak and see if i feel any different.
I'd agree with this. I deal with new players all the time at the dealership, giveaways, etc. I've probably given out a couple million in cars, my favorite moment being when a new player won a randomly chosen 400k car and nearly cried over voip because he was so happy. New players are still players on this server too, and the lack of features, general toxicity, and close-minded / exclusivity mindset from a lot of the long time players is what turns people away. There are a few reasons why you should always be kind and easy with NEW tags, instead of just having the terrible mindset that you shouldn't talk to them because they don't know what they're doing.

1. My first action on the server was jumping off of a highway accidentally bc I was so confused, when a member of the outcasts (14 months ago) found me and asked me if I needed help. I shit you not my words to him were "I don't really get how this game works", as it was my first experience with RP in general across the board, obviously I had no idea what was going on and how that was mixing, etc. This dude took me to MD, explained how RP worked in /b, and I never saw him again. Now, I've spent over 1500 hours in the community over the past 14 months, albeit a lot more during covid hours and during the peak of the server, but still, an active community member nonetheless- groupleader of DOC, SD, corporation owner, criminal RP, etc.

2. Sorry to call him out, but hiddenbush (Freddy Douglas in game). Homie came into his DOC interview saying "I don't know what me's and do's are" over VOIP. Instead of just sending him out because "I don't have time for NEW tags", I told him how RP works, and look at him now. He was a group leader for the SASD, and now a command member in the LSPD, who I'd say many would agree that he has very good RP.

The point is, don't ignore new tags. While a whitelist may be nice, an influx of NEW tags are important to grow the community, and while 90% of them might just VDM and combat log, there's still a chance that some of them can be very good members of this community with just a little bit of guidance and correction. I'd say save the whitelist for GTA W, which already has a KNOWN high standard of roleplay, and let MCRP be a more relaxed community where people can go for fun and to learn about RP.
 

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It's really hard for me to make a non bias opinion here as I'm a new player here and a first time RP player. I'm currently in the boat of 'I don't what what the hell I'm doing' and currently trying to wing it as I go along. Although my interactions and play style may come across as poor and lackluster to dedicated / hardcore RP players it doesn't mean I'm not trying.

This game throws many new challenges and obstacles at new players, first of all learning the game and it's own mechanics and secondly learning the RP aspect of the game. Neither of which are easy hurdles to overcome. I think as is life, RP opportunities are by chance elements of luck, where being in the right place at the right time rewards great RP experience and game play...

For me and my current experience, I for the most part am sat grinding my ass off in a non RP job trying to get the basics under my belt so I can improve my standing ingame... Simple privelleges such as having a car and mobility is a luxury long term players take for granted... I for one spend a lot of time running or cycling between places with very little RP interaction.

I do to some extent see what is being said here, and even my newbie RP self can see flaws in some players failing to interact and engage with RP, as I have previously expressed on discord, 90% of truckers I pass by do not chose to interact in RP and will ignore your comments or instantly drive away without a word when they slam into you.

Saying that, I did have my first RP encounter with a truck driver during a heavy collision yesterday where we pulled over, talked it out and the guy offered compensation for speeding through a red light and trashing me. I won't say my part played was perfect in the RP interaction but it's given me a basis for learning and starting to build my character.

I think it's a difficult one to balance, and both sides of the arguments are valid but there are rough gems out there waiting to be polished and have their time to shine.. Imagine if all servers had such a whitelist, where would you expect new players to go and learn how to play and RP? It has to start somewhere, and I for one chose to start here and hopefully share my journey with you guys.
 
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Anthony Delgato

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That's straight out a terrible reasoning. So, how exactly does whitelisting make people feel they are better at RP?. If there were a better whitelisting system, everyone who passed would feel elitist?
.



I agree there are new players who are willing to learn and understand the rules when joining, and I truly appreciate them, but your "so many" is the minority. Whenever I see [NEW] I just try to avoid and choose not to interact because I am not here to encounter and waste my time to people who have zero idea what RP is.

Whitelisting is the perfect initial solution to all the issues. Do you know any communities with high standards without whitelisting system? Tell me.
Everyone has an opinion and just cause you don't agree doesn't make it a terrible reasoning. Also your borderline metagaming just cause he/she has a new tag what if a very good RPer/streamer decides to join the server tomorrow you're gonna walk away from that person in a RP scenario just cause he has a new tag? Yikes shows how such "the magnificent RPer" you are that still breaks rules till this day but new flights are the problem lol. Everyone starts out somewhere. This server doesn't need a whitelist end of story
 
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Scar

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I don't know how you guys don't understand... Whatever Thomas Norman said about these [NEW] tags is pretty irrelevant for the conversation about whitelisting. Whitelisting literally doesn't have any cons to it. It can only bring more good to the server. The server would be so much better with a whitelist system. It doesn't need to be as in-depth as it's in GTA World, people don't want to copy GTA World, but as I said the RP standard is currently going UP and it needs to go UP. So a step for it to escalate to another level is a fucking whitelist.

If people are not here to RP they will soon get booted off the server for what they are going to be doing.

At this point of the server, this shouldn't be a "playground" for new people. The RP standard will, and has to go up.

Add the whitelist.
 
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MrRAT

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If people are not here to RP they will soon get booted off the server for what they are going to be doing.

At this point of the server, this shouldn't be a "playground" for new people. The RP standard will, and has to go up.

Add the whitelist.
But how do you even measure this? I spend a week in a official job that has no RP so I can buy a car, house etc but I'm classified as someone who doesn't want to RP?

I also think this type of mentality is bad, you're basically shaming new players for trying. If this mentality sticks then we end up with a toxic culture that doesn't allow MC to grow. If possible / necessary I would prefer other solutions to be explored like having an area or island that new tags can't leave until they have a foundation and meet some requirements (i.e time, job, money etc). At least try to explore a middleground where new tag's can be involved, unshamed and unpenalised instead of up front saying 'whitelist whitelist whitelist'

I'd also like to say RPly is this not in some essence representative of IRL? If I landed in a new country looking for a new life, would it not take time for me to understand the language and culture, understand the community and get integrated in that community in day to day life?
 

Thomas Noman

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I would prefer other solutions to be explored like having an area or island that new tags can't leave until they have a foundation and meet some requirements (i.e time, job, money etc). At least try to explore a middleground where new tag's can be involved, unshamed and unpenalised instead of up front saying 'whitelist whitelist whitelist'
That is not how roleplay works.
 

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I think an actual application would be a good idea. That is coming from someone new, I have only been in the server for about 2 to 3 weeks now but, even if the quiz at first was changed like. You only get so many tries to pass the test before you are locked out for so many days to try again. Make people really go back and re read the rules. Just an idea, I don't know how it would be able to be done or anything of the sorts but just to help with an idea!
 

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That is not how roleplay works.
I don't quite understand, could you elaborate?

I'm not saying that what I posted is the answer, but this is just one of my idea's which simply explores and allows discussions around the topic, rather than just sitting here imposing a whitelist. My example was an idea to simply isolate new tags (that limit them to moving freely based on some example limitations). This allows new tags to play and learn without being shamed and without causing frustration to hardcore / longterm players, although if they choose to, longterm players can travel freely to this place to help out or RP new tags.

There are a number of ways to implement this (dependant on dev limitations);
1) Hosting a completely new server/map/area that allows new tags to 'graduate' and travel/migrate their character to the more senior longterm/senior server/map/area.
2) Creating a completely isolated area in the current server/map that either:
2.1 - Cannot be left through until they have proved they are worthy of passing, by passing some requirements or making some agreement (i.e more stricter rules around RP - kind of like your whitelist agreement).
2.2 - Allow them to pass freely at any point but enforce a quiz/stricter RP agreement.

If you really want to make it an immersive RP experience, you can always spin it in such a way where there is an RP aspect by sugar coating this process as something like 'border check' or something alike, which in effect opens up a new position for IC border force agents.

Again to reiterate this isn't necessarily the right solution, it is just an idea. I for one don't like this idea of segregating the new tags from the rest of the server but this seems like a suitable middle ground in my eyes where all of the community can still participate and and we still end up with some kind of moderation...

As note; everything has pros and cons, as does the whitelisting but the whole idea of exploring options is to find the one that best fits the players and the community.
 
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JoeyC

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I don't know how you guys don't understand... Whatever Thomas Norman said about these [NEW] tags is pretty irrelevant for the conversation about whitelisting. Whitelisting literally doesn't have any cons to it. It can only bring more good to the server. The server would be so much better with a whitelist system. It doesn't need to be as in-depth as it's in GTA World, people don't want to copy GTA World, but as I said the RP standard is currently going UP and it needs to go UP. So a step for it to escalate to another level is a fucking whitelist.

If people are not here to RP they will soon get booted off the server for what they are going to be doing.

At this point of the server, this shouldn't be a "playground" for new people. The RP standard will, and has to go up.

Add the whitelist.
Read the full threat and tell me no cons exist. I'd be willing to say we should expect a heavy decrease in the amount of people joining at the cost of each person joining coming with more RP.
 

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But how do you even measure this? I spend a week in a official job that has no RP so I can buy a car, house etc but I'm classified as someone who doesn't want to RP?

I also think this type of mentality is bad, you're basically shaming new players for trying. If this mentality sticks then we end up with a toxic culture that doesn't allow MC to grow. If possible / necessary I would prefer other solutions to be explored like having an area or island that new tags can't leave until they have a foundation and meet some requirements (i.e time, job, money etc). At least try to explore a middleground where new tag's can be involved, unshamed and unpenalised instead of up front saying 'whitelist whitelist whitelist'

I'd also like to say RPly is this not in some essence representative of IRL? If I landed in a new country looking for a new life, would it not take time for me to understand the language and culture, understand the community and get integrated in that community in day to day life?
A whitelist doesn't mean there won't be new players, if you really want to play on the server is it that hard to write a backstory to your character and pass a multiple-choice questions test about the rules? Let's say you fail the test, an admin's responsibility in the response of your application would be "Hey you have failed because of this and this, please reapply and fix your mistakes" It's not like they will close the server down fully and make nobody else come in.
 

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Read the full threat and tell me no cons exist. I'd be willing to say we should expect a heavy decrease in the number of people joining at the cost of each person joining coming with more RP.
In my opinion, that is something that should be taken into account most definitely, tho the server has grown enough in the last year for this addition to be implemented and as I said - staff is pushing for a higher RP standard, the RP is going to increase, and we wouldn't technically lose players, it would be slower to get into the server, a character backstory of 150 words and a little more advanced test than the quiz we have now isn't going to stop anybody from joining.
 

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A whitelist doesn't mean there won't be new players, if you really want to play on the server is it that hard to write a backstory to your character and pass a multiple-choice questions test about the rules? Let's say you fail the test, an admin's responsibility in the response of your application would be "Hey you have failed because of this and this, please reapply and fix your mistakes" It's not like they will close the server down fully and make nobody else come in.
For me it's the idea of putting more hurdles in place; if you're like me new to RP then it may be difficult to even get your foot in the door in the first place, let alone the additional number of extra obstacles put in place.

Let's play devil's advocate here:

If I knew I had to wait a week+ to even get considered and I then go through this long tedious process of being rejected and reapplying I would probably have submitted an application and never returned, I for one know I wouldn't be sitting here right now to be honest - and this is the very reason I walked straight past the popular servers currently being streamed on twitch because I knew I was going to be back of the queue and waiting...

Getting my foot in the door early, and getting a taste of RP life is what kept me here and not swanning off to another server where I may have built up my character, made some friends and stayed.

I understand fully the points about whitelisting and granted things can be put in place to encourage and help new RP players get their foot in the door by creating guides on creating successful RP applications and doing good RP, but ultimately we just end up in the same situation we're in right now. We currently have things like this in place without the whole white listing, the simple fact is new tags, or any tag will 'fake it until they make it', these guides/rules are not being respected or understood once their foot is in the door - what's to say a whitelist application would be any different?
 
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For me it's the idea of putting more hurdles in place; if you're like me new to RP then it may be difficult to even get your foot in the door in the first place, let alone the additional number of extra obstacles put in place.

Let's play devil's advocate here:

If I knew I had to wait a week+ to even get considered and I then go through this long tedious process of being rejected and reapplying I would probably have submitted an application and never returned, I for one know I wouldn't be sitting here right now to be honest - and this is the very reason I walked straight past the popular servers currently being streamed on twitch because I knew I was going to be back of the queue and waiting...

Getting my foot in the door early, and getting a taste of RP life is what kept me here and not swanning off to another server where I may have built up my character, made some friends and stayed.

I understand fully the points about whitelisting and granted things can be put in place to encourage and help new RP players get their foot in the door by creating guides on creating successful RP applications and doing good RP, but ultimately we just end up in the same situation we're in right now. We currently have things like this in place without the whole white listing, the simple fact is new tags, or any tag will 'fake it until they make it', these guides/rules are not being respected or understood once their foot is in the door - what's to say a whitelist application would be any different?
I get your points, and again, if you're new to RP a lot of people are more than willing to teach you shit especially here, but adding a whitelist doesn't mean that it's going to take a week+ to get accepted, depends on how staff does their work. It will solve a lot of issues, the rp standard will go up, ban evasions would be less common etc.