WagonWheel's rule suggestion for Banning Rape Roleplay

WagonWheel

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Rule Name:
Rape Roleplay​

Is this a rule addition, change, or removal:
New Rule​

Suggested Rule Text:
Rape Roleplay:​
Any form of roleplay centred around the idea or action of rape, either ERP (erotic RolePlay), GrossRP or Medical RP will result in a server punishment. any individual (perpetrator) deemed to have actively and willfully engaged in a rape roleplay scene will be issues a server punishment even if OOC consent is given by all parties involved.​
Comments, threats, rumours and fantasies regarding Rape IC would fall under the existing sexual harrasment rule and require parties to stop said comments if told OOCly.​

What are the benefits of this rule:
While roleplay is about engaging in ones ultimate fantasies there should be a line drawn somewhere in the sand. This server has had many Rape roleplay scenes undertaken in it, many with OOC consent and some without however the issue is that sometimes these actions are taken out of context and can lead to OOC toxicity as well as general comfortability issues with people involved in said RP.​
The benefit of this rule is that it would take an item off the table and potential stop any comfortability issues in the future.​

What are the negatives of this rule change, addition, or removal:
Honestly the negative to this rule that i could see would be the loss of some decent thought out RP, I'm not going to sugar coat it but from a solely RP perspective there is some benefit to these scenes much like in movies or TV however the issue is that given the age demographic of the server as well as the general maturity i believe that such a roleplay could not be performed with respect or a high enough standard.​

I confirmed that I have properly thought about this rule amendment. I also confirm that I've discussed this rule amendment with others. I also confirm I've checked the suggestion section before previously posting this rule suggestion and understand that I will receive a warning for posting a duplicate suggestion.
Yes​
 

Nivaurum

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While I generally feel that any line of RP should be acceptable given the OOC consent of all involved parties, @WagonWheel, makes a persuasive point in regards to our players. While there are many people who could handle the topic with the requisite maturity, there's obviously a portion that couldn't. There are many players who are under 18, and probably some under 14. Is this really a PG-13 (movies) or E-rated (ESRB) topic? To me, it feels more like it's rated R (movies) or M (ESRB).

My biggest issue with this suggestion is just how much it limits. It would presumably even prohibit someone from using RP markers to denote a dead NPC who had been raped. I wouldn't consider that as something that should ever be punished. Sure, it's an adult topic, but it's a topic that you will commonly see on TV, even in prime time.
 

WagonWheel

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While I generally feel that any line of RP should be acceptable given the OOC consent of all involved parties, @WagonWheel, makes a persuasive point in regards to our players. While there are many people who could handle the topic with the requisite maturity, there's obviously a portion that couldn't. There are many players who are under 18, and probably some under 14. Is this really a PG-13 (movies) or E-rated (ESRB) topic? To me, it feels more like it's rated R (movies) or M (ESRB).

My biggest issue with this suggestion is just how much it limits. It would presumably even prohibit someone from using RP markers to denote a dead NPC who had been raped. I wouldn't consider that as something that should ever be punished. Sure, it's an adult topic, but it's a topic that you will commonly see on TV, even in prime time.
You do bring up some valid points about my wording of the rule and i would like to clarify it by saying the reason for the harsh and very specific wording is to prevent any wiggle room or vagueness opening up to loopholes within the rule itself.

@Nivaurum much like you, I pride myself on my RP standard and I do believe that any topic should be available for use in RP. Ironically i am staunchly against any form of censorship yet here i am asking for one. My reasoning for the rule as i mentioned and you noted was that the level of maturity on this server and its player base. Whilst i agree that this topic does come up increasingly in common TV shows and movies (infact SVU is my second favourite TV show) I think there is a clear distinction between that and several /me's and /do'.
 

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Yes, ban this. Literally does not bring anything to RP.
 

Falconinthedive

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While I generally feel that any line of RP should be acceptable given the OOC consent of all involved parties, @WagonWheel, makes a persuasive point in regards to our players. While there are many people who could handle the topic with the requisite maturity, there's obviously a portion that couldn't. There are many players who are under 18, and probably some under 14. Is this really a PG-13 (movies) or E-rated (ESRB) topic? To me, it feels more like it's rated R (movies) or M (ESRB).

My biggest issue with this suggestion is just how much it limits. It would presumably even prohibit someone from using RP markers to denote a dead NPC who had been raped. I wouldn't consider that as something that should ever be punished. Sure, it's an adult topic, but it's a topic that you will commonly see on TV, even in prime time.
But rape roleplay isn't limited to just the parties involved in the sexual assault. Sexual assault is already listed under gross roleplay, which isn't allowed in public and anyone involved is allowed to revoke consent after having given it at any time.

The player who consented to the rape obviously wants to play out the after effects of the rape, meaning their social circle and any IC partner at very least will likely learn about it and have to deal with the after affects or act out of character and ignore their friend's pain if it's a line they're OOCly uncomfortable with. That's public and none of them ever consented to a rape storyline.

MD is often involved in medical clean up and treatment, if not sometimes also psych followup, which means that the medic who happens to be on duty at the time is being forced to handle a sexual assault they didn't consent to (or the medic who's the least uncomfortable step in). Similar to PD/SD. The person who responds to the call is likely going to be the one dealing with it whether they had a chance to know what they were getting into or not. And then if the rapist decides to push it, it can go to DOJ where it becomes a court case, which has at least two lawyers and a judge then digs up all the records again in discovery making MD/PD revisit it and publishes it wall publically on the DOJ website. It's a plot that goes public where people haven't consented to it that has a capacity to go on for a while.

Like take the most current rape case I'm aware of has been going on for something like a month and a half.

I don't think it's censorship to say that rape has no place in public RP. With as common as sexual assault is, any given player base inevitably has survivors at various stages of the healing process who came to a game about cars where sexual assault is banned and have a reasonable expectation of not seeing sexual assault on this server. And while honestly, and kind of paradoxically, I don't think it's always some weird fetish thing and have known people who have used RP in the past as a way of processing trauma like sexual assault, and maybe there's benefit to that. But that's still not something that's remotely fair to do in a public game. Do that shit in private: a discord or google docs text RP or private RP server if you need to.

But I definitely think if it's something OOCly consented to that both parties in the rape are complicit in explicitly violating both the letter and intent of server rules
 
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Nivaurum

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Before getting into this, I want to be clear that I don't really care one way or another if we toss every reference to rape from the server. While it could be an interesting line of RP, there are plenty of others. That said, in an effort to have a fruitful discussion, I may be the one playing the devil's advocate. PLEASE don't take offense to that.

I'd like for this thread to serve as a discussion on how to make limited changes that fix the defect in the current rule. In order to do that, we probably need to understand what the current defect is. I realize that probably has some basis in a present situation, and the people involved may not want to talk about that publicly, but we need some clue. Maybe some hypotheticals would help show the flaw in the rule, while protecting people's privacy.

I will say that the sensitivity to even the topic of rape seems excessive. We're talking about it here, in a mature manner, and that should be fine by anybody. It's not like the mere mention of the word should be stricken from the server. Anybody who is that sensitive to the topic is going to have a hard time in life.

For the most part, the current rules seem to focus on depictions of actual sexual acts. To that extent, given that I have no interest in ERP, if I'm in a situation where my character would engage in such an act, I just "fade to black". We can both agree that things happened, and don't need to describe them in detail. I think the same standard should apply to gross RP. It should be okay for third parties to learn that things happened, so long as nobody is forced to go into the details.

I honestly feel the same way about torture and mutilation. It's not a line of RP that I want to experience with my character, and I don't want to know the details of any such RP that happened with other characters, but I'm fine with knowing that it happened.
 

WagonWheel

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I will say that the sensitivity to even the topic of rape seems excessive

Yeah, we are having an open discussion about the rule suggestion and that is what this section is designed for, Personally I didn't word the original rule in a way that i wanted, same with my responses i've had to censor myself and chose my words carefully as due to my position in staff I don't want my words to be misinterpreted or taken out of context.

MD is often involved in medical clean up and treatment, if not sometimes also psych follow-up, which means that the medic who happens to be on duty at the time is being forced to handle a sexual assault they didn't consent to (or the medic who's the least uncomfortable step in). Similar to PD/SD. The person who responds to the call is likely going to be the one dealing with it whether they had a chance to know what they were getting into or not. And then if the rapist decides to push it, it can go to DOJ where it becomes a court case, which has at least two lawyers and a judge then digs up all the records again in discovery making MD/PD revisit it and publishes it wall publicly on the DOJ website. It's a plot that goes public where people haven't consented to it that has a capacity to go on for a while.

@Falconinthedive Brings up an interesting point and the reason that I wrote in the part pertaining to Medical RP as these sorts of scenes involve a large number of third parties, I know from my time in LSES that i had to perform several procedures following IC rapes as well as offer counselling and psychological sessions to those involved, I was completely comfortable with them as I felt the RP behind it was detailed enough and the medical aspects were both educational and creative.

I'd Love to hear everyone's views and rule changes regarding this one.
 

Nivaurum

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While it's great to be able to have somebody do actual RP, we often infer that so NPC did the RP that we are the beneficiary of. For example, typically nobody is working in a restaurant, yet you get cooked food. You can also get your car worked on by an imaginary mechanic. I think it's fair to infer that an imaginary doctor did an examination of a rape victim and documented his conclusions in a report. I just recently did that with an autopsy, due to the OOC circumstances.

I think we can and should use the above to our advantage if we want to avoid Gross RP. If somebody shows up at MD and needs to have a rape kit done, if there are no EMS who want to participate in that, the player can just make appropriate conclusions as to what would have been discovered by a doctor.

The same goes for PD/SD. Since the crime has already happened, it probably means it goes to a Detective. If nobody wants to be involved, then it's fair to say that some NPC Detective took the report and that the case went unsolved. Over 90% of cases go unsolved anyway, and rape is difficult to prove.

I think the above allows third parties to avoid situations that they don't want to be a part of, and I think the current rules allow it. We just need to consider that it's an option, instead of feeling forced to participate.
 

Falconinthedive

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But like that said, if you can have something done with a PC, an NPC is always going to be a less satisfying and more limited option and if PC options exist, bypassing those to have NPCs react exactly as you want to is basically writing fanfiction on your own or I guess discord RP.

But especially if you're looking at a criminal thing, an NPC detective isn't going to be able to ultimately arrest someone or send them to DOJ, and even if you assume the rapist could like ICly reach out to DOC and come to an arrangement to serve time, There'd still be consideration of a player would have to update the MDC with charges and process that. And if they try to use DOJ tried to contest anything, there'd be no paper trail with MD or PD that any treatment or incident even occurred. So basically using NPCs to bypass PCs only works if you don't want any actual consequences to come of the RP in which case, why undertake a rape storyline at all if you don't want player responses? Just put it in your backstory if it's essentially a private struggle or one for your char and their current romantic partner.

What's probably more common with MD is assholes thinking they're funny and coming in *downed* with injuries like "torn rectum" yelling about how an NPC raped them. And in that case, 100% "pick a real injury, I'm not doing gross rp" is legit the right response. They're not starting a story arc, they just think rape's so edgy and funny. But like, passing on a case where a player came in because they oocly agreed to let another pc rape them isn't always an option especially if there's limited government employee on duty and/or DOJ and LEOs are already involved. If you have 5 MD on duty, sure maybe you can be like "I've got to let someone else handle this" but if there's just you, or your other colleagues are busy at something else for the foreseeable future, that's not always an option.

It's treat them or they don't get treated.