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Wozak's rule suggestion for Immersion (Failing to value your own, or another individual's life. (Examples below))

Wozak

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Rule Name:
Immersion (Failing to value your own, or another individual's life. (Examples below))​

Is this a rule addition, change, or removal:
Rule Change​

Suggested Rule Text:
Failing to value your own life. (Examples below)​

What are the benefits of this rule:
As currently written, nobody can kill me due to the fact that they risk breaking a rule for not valuing my life. It is obvious that this is not meant, but it is not further explained upon.

Regardless, there should not be a server rule for something that is clearly a roleplay-exclusive issue. I should not be bound by rules to fear for another person's life. If my only choice is to surrender or obey if someone else's (maybe a friend or whatever) life is in danger, then there will be 0 roleplay and 0 unique experiences. Each hostage situation will go exactly the same.​

What are the negatives of this rule change, addition, or removal:
Nothing.​

I confirmed that I have properly thought about this rule amendment. I also confirm that I've discussed this rule amendment with others. I also confirm I've checked the suggestion section before previously posting this rule suggestion and understand that I will receive a warning for posting a duplicate suggestion.
Yes​
 

Ollie Scott

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I'll be honest with you, I'm not a fan of this rule.

It will ruin hostage RP and it just won't be fun in general, if your friend/ colleague is getting held hostage right in front of you IRL, what would you do? Would you just ignore them, would you shoot through your friend?

And people involved in hostage taken barely ever get away, for example (DO NOT meta this) there was a hostage situation at the mirror park general store where 4 robbers took someone hostage, after a bit of negotiations they said that they'd let the hostage go, then they'll leave in their vehicles, once they released the hostage and began to drive away, all the police shot the vehicles and apprehended the hostage takers and saved the hostages life.
 

Nick_Kassian

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And people involved in hostage taken barely ever get away, for example (DO NOT meta this) there was a hostage situation at the mirror park general store where 4 robbers took someone hostage, after a bit of negotiations they said that they'd let the hostage go, then they'll leave in their vehicles, once they released the hostage and began to drive away, all the police shot the vehicles and apprehended the hostage takers and saved the hostages life.
Why do you guys do this? What kind of RP is it to promise to meet demands with people with hostages and then break them? At least when we robbed Vangelico, PD roleplayed with us and met our demands of safe passage and everyone enjoyed the roleplay.

That being said, Fear RP should still be a rule. As the chief of police or an officer, you should value your fellow officers lives. Just yesterday, the head of the rules team, John Gambino decided he didn't feel like criminals during a hostage situation and as a result is responsible for 7 officers dying at the hands of criminals. This was terrible RP. There was 0 interaction in the hostage negotiation between PD and criminals and everyone left dissatisfied. Not before they showed up on a hill and sniped 2 people just to "clap them" and then drove away. Clearly, this situation was very unenjoyable for everyone involved.
 

Ollie Scott

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Why do you guys do this? What kind of RP is it to promise to meet demands with people with hostages and then break them? At least when we robbed Vangelico, PD roleplayed with us and met our demands of safe passage and everyone enjoyed the roleplay.

That being said, Fear RP should still be a rule. As the chief of police or an officer, you should value your fellow officers lives. Just yesterday, the head of the rules team, John Gambino decided he didn't feel like criminals during a hostage situation and as a result is responsible for 7 officers dying at the hands of criminals. This was terrible RP. There was 0 interaction in the hostage negotiation between PD and criminals and everyone left dissatisfied. Not before they showed up on a hill and sniped 2 people just to "clap them" and then drove away. Clearly, this situation was very unenjoyable for everyone involved.
Like i said, they released the hostage THEN the hostage takers left, we were no longer worrying about losing the life of the hostage as he was safe at that point, and we shot the vehicles to disable them, not to kill the drivers (I'd understand you if that was the case but it wasn't). And those people held a hostage at gunpoint and threatened to murder him, realistically they would never just let them go that easy. And from what i heard from other PD officers on the scene, 1 or 2 of the hostage takers had warrants for other violent crimes so we KNEW that they would do this sort of thing again and possibly kill someone next time.
 

Nivaurum

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The whole hostage thing is pretty stupid. IRL, it never works out for the bad guy. He will never be allowed to leave the scene, no matter what he threatens to do. At best, he can keep his life, and maybe have a bite of hot chicken and a sip of whiskey.

The whole argument for valuing life applies on both sides.

From the bad guy's perspective, if you kill your hostage, then you die. It's a certainty. It's so certain, that you could fairly call it a suicide, and rule it a CK.

From the cops' perspective, if you allow the bad guy to leave, then he will take more hostages, because that strategy works. Thus, you're giving him full control, which might include him killing additional people. In most cases, you can be certain that he will kill other people.

@Nick_Kassian , your example is a case in point. They let you go, and you then killed 7 officers.

Never let a hostage-taker go. He either goes to jail, or he dies. You will always minimize the number of deaths by sticking to that rule.
 
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Nick_Kassian

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@Nick_Kassian , your example is a case in point. They let you go, and you then killed 7 officers.
You must have me confused for someone else. In the jewelry heist we got out without a bullet being fired by either side, escaped a pursuit and escaped. Changed clothes, cars, colors, etc. and buried our bags of jewelry.

We had excellent RP with negotiations and I honestly wish there was more to do because it was so fun.

Never let a hostage-taker go. He either goes to jail, or he dies. You will always minimize the number of deaths by sticking to that rule.
I get the realism aspect of this... however, man this is a bad attitude for roleplay. Do you want criminals to try and create roleplay situations with police? Or do you want to us to just stick to PvP? Incentivizing good criminal roleplay does NOT look like jailing him or letting him die. Now, I'm not saying if they're reckless to just let them go, but if they have good rp and a decent escape plan, why ruin the RP for them with this? I'm actually going to post a suggestion regarding this.
 

Nivaurum

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Whenever I think of a hostage situation, this is what I think of.

That made for good TV, so I figure it would be equally good RP. Of course, the bad guy didn't get away... but he got something, and he didn't die.

Whenever I hear about a hostage situation on MCRP, I immediately think, "Fear RP! You have to let me win now." And that's largely how it goes. It's certainly the expectation for most of the guys taking hostages. So who's ruining the RP?